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If you’re not living in the DACH region (Germany, Austria, Switzerland), you might not fully grasp our political culture—or why these elections are so alarming. Let me explain:
The AfD (a far-right to extremist party with some outright neo-Nazis in their ranks) received only around 20% of the votes, instead of the 30% many of us feared. Good news, right? Well, not really…
Friedrich Merz, the CDU/CSU candidate—widely regarded as a conservative capitalist with a slight rightward tilt— just a few weeks ago, has broken the long-standing consensus not to collaborate with the AfD.
This is the same Friedrich Merz from the same party that once stood for pragmatism and long-term stability (remember Angela Merkel?). Yet, his victory speech sounded almost indistinguishable from the emotionally-charged, AfD’s anti-left-rhetoric.
Both the decision to break a decades-old taboo by opening the door to working with extremists and the shift toward emotionally charged, populist rhetoric mark a profound change in Germany’s political landscape.
So, while the AfD may have "only" secured 20%, the real story is that the conservative mainstream just took a massive step to the right. The political spectrum is shifting—which only means extremists will have to become even more extreme to differentiate themselves.
No, Europe is not fine.
We are not fine.
Thank you for reading.
EDIT: It was in fact not his victory-speech, but one he made a few days ago, pre elaction.
EDIT#2: The collaboration mentioned was about immigration policies. Didn't mean to imply coalition-talks.
@KrajciTom@universeodon.comI do not live in the DACH region, and I do not understand.
When I look at press reports, their story differs from yours.
Excerpts:
- Merz has repeatedly ruled out working with AfD, as have other mainstream parties — and did so again in a televised post-election exchange with Weidel and other leaders.
- Merz dismissed the idea that voters wanted a coalition with AfD. “We have fundamentally different views, for example on foreign policy, on security policy, in many other areas, regarding Europe, the euro, NATO,” he said.
“You want the opposite of what we want, so there will be no cooperation,” Merz added.
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Then for clarification:
CDU/CSU already said they will work together with AfD regarding immigration policies. That was before the election took place.
Whether they're siding with the AfD or not is a personal take, but looking at Austria (same situation, same narrative and still they nearly closed a coalition-deal with AfDs sister-party FPÖ) I find it to be likely.
Last: My concern and the main point of my argument is not that CDU will form an alliance with the AfD, but that the political culture - the tone and way in which we do politics - shifted.
I fully agree with that assessment.
And the threat of switching over to working with the AfD is always in the room which can well be used to force the SPD to "consent" with all kinds of far right politics in content.
And deportations with a "centrist" label won't be less traumatic and disruptive than with an official fash label.
Or taking away trans rights. Or making the poor yet more poor.
And I won't ever forget his antisemitism in the speech one day before the elections and getting away with it.
@AwkwardTuring
It looks to me like CDU will go into a formal coalition on many subjects, and is totally fine to be a tolerated minority rule in cases of AfD overlap.
They most likely will directly use this in coalition negotiations.
We have seen in the last year, that CDU very much does not honor the intent of their prior agreements, but the wording to weasel themselves out. As seen with party the left, no coalition is possible. But talks with new forming BSW are fine.
Merz had ruled out even just voting with the AfD in parliament last year. And he still did. On the very day where parliament earlier held an Auschwitz memorial.
So he's not trustworthy with that promise. He has shown that.
I guess he'll make a coalition with the SPD but use the AfD option as a threat in order to force the SPD to consent to far right politics in content.
He has, for a statement that was not binding, used AfD votes. While there has been an Agreement to not use AfD Votes to push your agenda. Aka the agreement cross parties was: Either you make it w/o their votes, or you do not do it. You find your majority w/o AfD votes.
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The demonstrations last weeks with millions in Germany, yes it was because of this.
https://apnews.com/article/germany-protests-merz-migration-afd-ab8c5513ade9068534bbd6278d97a4d7
Merz justified working with AfD to: Why should I not push my agenda, if they agree to it, not my fault.
To make it clear AfD has imho good chances to get banned in Germany for
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@KrajciTom
To add: The promise was: EVERYONE on ANY level cooperating with AfD would get kicked out of CDU. Often told by him. Never followed. There is plenty of cooperation on various levels.
Add to this that CSU declares Green as their main opponent. Not AfD, which has even a fascist leader on state level.
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Because it might not be clear. If I call some public figure a fascist I get sued for defamation here. Höcke (AfD leader in Thurungia) lost those court cases, it is a factual statement according to the courts.
https://americangerman.institute/2024/07/agi-profiles-bjorn-hocke/
NB: He is/was a history teacher, re: use of Nazi speech/symbols
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He is not trustworthy.
But for now, he may be a bit tamed, at least for a while, since there is no excuse for not having a coalition with SPD.
If BSW and FDP had achieved the 5%, it would have been much more difficult to form a government with CDU/CSU, SPD and GRÜNE, mainly due to CSU.
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@nicolegoebel
I would call it a frozen conflict. He can leverage his position quite heavily against SPD. And I would assume he is happy with this threat from the right side, to keep himself in power. So I doubt he will change his politics.
I mean he even threw the FDP under the bus
https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/deutschland/bundestagswahl-merz-fdp-affront-vier-prozent-100.html
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Mostly agree. Except FDP may have thrown theirselves under the bus willingly. I mean... they are the reason that we are in this situation right now. And everybody knows.
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Definitely not tamed. He's getting away with antisemitism and anti left tirades.
He'll use the option to work with the AfD in some way to drive the SPD to agree with all kinds of far right policies. Which aren't less bad just because enacted with different colors.
@project1enigma
Yes, this is very likely.
And also the reason, why I'd prefer to see GRÜNE in strong opposition.
@mwfc @KrajciTom @AwkwardTuring @Xavier @hazardius @nicolegoebel @Nochem @Fragarach @jaythvv @Tapioseta @Namelesshorse @anarchic_teapot @shadowfals @kcarruthers @RobinFriend @astrocurator There's virtually no chance for an AfD ban now because the few institutions who could apply for the ban won't.
Language matters, especially with foreigners in the thread:
The "AfD ban" is a notion by 2/3 of parliament to check whether another party is working and has goals within the constitution.
This has not been triggered for whatever reason for the afd. And it is more than likely that afd will not pass
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The AfD ban would be the whole proceedings. Parliament (IIRC simple majority is enough), 2nd chamber or the cabinet could apply and the Constitutional Court would decide (long proceedings).
We're currently failing at the first step and chances for even that first step are slim.
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The AfD will obviously not vote for such a motion. The CDU/CSU won't either (with possibly very few exceptions).
@project1enigma
I might be wrong, and it needs to be 2/3 majority vote by judges for the sentence. My bad.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parteiverbot#Grundlagen
So majority vote might be enough for step 1.
If we do not do it federally, we can do it state by state. Which sounds even less possible.
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I don't see doing it state by state. The application has to come from the federal parliament (one of both chambers) or the federal government (cabinet).
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The variant of the application coming from one state is only valid for parties whose activities are completely limited to that state.
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I think they mean just remove from the list of accounts, like I've just done.
Of course, I've been known to be wrong on occasion 
@Fragarach @Tapioseta
Every time you get mentioned in a post, you get a message.
Some clients add the booster automaticly, but they never intended to be in the discussion.
Hence they get a flood of messages.
So in further answers you should delete their nick in the list.
And probably I should have trimmed it when I answered earlier too. It was kind of obvious many were in the list but not talking. So kind of my fault. Sorry for that.
@project1enigma
So it is not some parties nilly willy banning other parties.
But having courts to check a party.
This has not happened and I see no chanc that this will happen. The last check against NPD was dismissed, because it lacked the means to harm democracy (were too small). Afd might gain veto powers now
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